IT: Welcome to Derry co-showrunner Jason Fuchs confirmed that Episode 5's shocking Pennywise twist was originally supposed to happen in IT: Chapter Two. The latest episode of HBO Max's prequel series finally revealed Bill Skarsgärd's Pennywise in all his terrifying glory as the ancient evil set a trap to lure the 1962 version of the Losers' Club into the sewers by using Matty Clements. Matty is part of Pennywise's cruelest trick in Welcome to Derry Episode 1, with the poor kid being one of its victims.
However, Episode 5 pulled a shocker by revealing that Matty was alive, and he managed to sneak into the proto Losers' Club headquarters to tell them that he knows about Pennywise's lair in the sewers while also confirming that Phil was still alive and trapped inside. However, not everything was real because the Matty who showed himself to Lilly Bainbridge (Clara Stack) and the gang was actually Pennywise himself, and this revelation forever changed the kids. And now, it seemed that this horrifying moment was not initially intended for Welcome to Derry.
Speaking with Decider, IT: Welcome to Derry executive producer and co-showrunner Jason Fuchs confirmed that the big Pennywise twist where he shapeshifted into Matty so that the 1962 Losers' Club would trust him was not originally made for the HBO Max series because it was intended to be used on Losers' Club member, Mike Hanlon, in 2019's IT: Chapter Two.
Fuchs shared that there was a version of IT: Chapter Two's script where Mike Hanlon was "a manifestation of IT" who tricked the Losers' Club into taking them down into the sewers, where they found Mike's dead body in the lair:
"So when I was working on IT: Chapter Two, there was a version of that script where Mike Hanlon — who has obviously been guiding our adult Losers the entire time — eventually takes them down into the sewers, takes them down into It’s sanctuary, where they find Mike Hanlon’s body. And you realize that the Mike Hanlon we were with the whole journey of 'IT: Chapter Two' was a manifestation of It."
However, Fusch, Andy, and Barbara Muschietti decided to throw the idea out of the window since it was a major departure from Stephen King's 1977 novel. Still, the producers eventually found a way to incorporate this wild idea into Welcome to Derry and create Pennywise's terrifying entrance:
"We thought, ‘Oh, it’s just too much of a departure from the book. We want to be closer to where the story beats.’ And so that went away. Then when we started talking about the journey of the show, and specifically Episode 5, I remember us talking and going, ‘Wait, this is an idea that might actually have found its time and its moment.’ Matty as the guide, Matty in that context, makes a lot more sense."
Fusch ended by saying that Welcome to Derry's format of being a TV show allowed the twist to prosper because the prequel essentially embraced taking departures from the novel:
"You have more opportunities to take riskier swings. You have the opportunity to take departures that you couldn’t in the films because it all really is fresh. Now we’re using pieces of the book, but then extrapolating and sort of inventing from there. So that moment was a long time coming, and it was very cool to see it real."
This latest revelation confirmed that the Pennywise twist involving Matty Clements was far more disturbing because a beloved IT protagonist like Mike Hanlon would've died early, which would've placed the situation of the original Losers' Club in a much dire state.
Seeing a version of IT: Chapter Two where Mike Hanlon was already dead would've strayed away from what happened in Stephen King's novel. While it would make the 2019 sequel unexpected, it would have fundamentally broken what made the franchise great because Mike was one of the movie's best characters (considering that the Hanlon family tree is crucial to Pennywise's downfall).
Developed by Jason Fuchs, Andy, and Barbara Muschietti, IT: Welcome to Derry follows the story of Pennywise's reign of terror during its 1962 cycle, leading up to the events of the burning of the Black Spot. The series premiered on HBO Max on October 26, 2025.
Why Pennywise's Matty Twist Works Perfectly in Welcome to Derry
Pennywise is known for taking many forms in the IT franchise, using its victims' fears and weaponizing them before eventually consuming them. However, the Episode 5 twist, where the ancient entity bided its time and manipulated Lilly, Marge, Rich, Ronnie, and Will, making them believe that their lost friend was actually alive, revealed the diabolical nature of this creature.
Pennywise's restraint in not attacking them outright and instead luring them to its home turf was a calculated move. The ancient evil used their guilt of not initially saving Matty the first time to convince them to come with him in the first place.
The Matty twist hits harder in Welcome to Derry because its victims are kids, who are naive, guilt-ridden, and desperate to believe their friend is still alive, and it produced a more terrifying reaction. It would not have worked in IT: Chapter Two because the original plan was that the intended targets were the adult versions of the Losers' Club in the sequel (especially after they initially forgot how dangerous Pennywise really was).
More so, the betrayal in Welcome to Derry cuts deeper, and it would force the kids not to trust anyone who tried to help them in the future, laying the groundwork for an easy kill for Pennywise in the horror series.
