The arrival of The Mule in The Foundation Season 3 will affect the characters in the show in different ways, and his threat to existence can't be understated. For those who don't know, the Mule is a major villain. In the original books, he's an extremely powerful mentalic mutant with the telepathic ability to manipulate the emotions of other human beings.
In an exclusive interview with The Direct's Russ Milheim, Foundation cast members Lou Llobell (Gaal Dornick), Jared Harris (Hari Seldon), Lee Pace (Brother Day), and Laura Birn (Demerzel) explained just how the threat of the Mule will affect their characters' journeys.
Lou Llobell teased that "everything is pointed towards him now" as "the biggest threat." While it's always been the Foundation versus Empire, both sides now have "a common enemy."
Jared Harris explained that "The Mule more or less invalidates psychohistory," and that the villainous warlord and conqueror "is the outlier that [Hari Seldon has] always feared that's finally come into existence."
As for Lee Pace's Brother Day, the actor admitted that his character "doesn't really ever know about The Mule" because "he doesn't really care about anything that's happening outside of himself." Thankfully, Laura Birn's Demerzel is "definitely paying attention," as she "is carrying the responsibility for [Brother Day]."
The cast also had plenty to say about how their characters have evolved and changed in Season 3, which can be read in the full interviews below.
Foundation Season 3 starts streaming on Apple TV+ on July 11, 2025, with weekly episodes after. Fans of Apple TV+ content should be sure to check out Smoke, which the showrunner hopes to do three seasons of!
The Foundation Cast on How The Mule's Villainous Arrival Shakes Their Existence
"Everything Is Pointed Towards Him Now..."
- The Direct: "Season 3 introduces The Mule as a key villain. How does his introduction and threat upend your character's world and existence?"
Lou Llobel: I mean, everything is pointed towards him now, he is now the biggest threat, whereas before, you know The Foundation versus Empire that's always been the case and now we both got a common enemy, and he is scary, and it's daunting, and we don't know what he's going to do. So, yeah, he's the big bad wolf.
Jared Harris: Well, The Mule more or less invalidates psychohistory. I mean, if the rationale behind psychohistory is that it is capable of being able to protect the behavior of large groups of people, and you have one person who can coerce the behavior of all mankind. You've got a useless tool at that point, haven't you? So, I mean, The Mule is the outlier that he's always feared that's finally come into existence.
Lee Pace: My character doesn't really ever know about The Mule, because he doesn't really care about anything that's happening outside of himself... I play a really fun Cleon this season where he's pretty much checked out [on] the idea of being the Emperor, and he just wants to kick back and take drugs and just enjoy himself. So the universe, the galaxy, is kind of crumbling and falling apart in lots of different ways.
And the introduction of The Mule is this mutant of chaos, kind of entering out of nowhere, while everyone is kind of dealing with their own little political problems here and there. I think suddenly everyone has to deal with them, and the one person who doesn't have to deal with them is the one person who's not paying attention.
Laura Birn: [Demerzel's] definitely paying attention, and she is carrying the responsibility for [Brother Day], and I think for her, to have hold of the prime radiant and to be able to see things kind of forecast things that will happen, and have all that information, forms... It's the fate of the dynasty. It's the fate of humanity, but at the same time, it's her fate. What's going to happen to her when things, if things end, if things get destroyed. Where does it leave her? Is it a new beginning, or is it an ending for her?
And I think she's very confused in that, and she's contemplated on the past and the future, and then there's this sadness or melancholy to her, that kind of feels like she's spiraling inwards. So, she's very aware of what happens in the galaxy, and at the same time, she's very concentrated on her existential crisis. So it's like two different parts of her that are pulling in two different directions.
Laura Birn & Lee Pace on Their Characters' Season 3 Journey
Demerzel Gets More Responsibility, While Brother Day Wants Less
- The Direct: "Can you guys both kind of talk about more of what makes Season 3 really unique, especially regarding how your characters are portrayed on screen, and what you guys get to explore that you haven't been able to do yet?"
Laura Birn: From Demerzel's point of view, we learn so much more about her because she's been, for all these seasons, quite like silent and secretive and observing and kind of like operating from behind and now suddenly there's also a new character brought to the palace who finally has ears for her, takes a moment to listen to her, or she's forced to do that, but anyway, there's someone that she's open to.
So, we kind of learn about her, and we see more of her inner struggle is suddenly more visible for us. It was really fun to play with that.
Bringing The Mule too, that energy to the whole story, like that character is so unpredictable, and yet you want to see why, where, what is he going to do? What is he like? How impossible that character can be, and then having [Pilou Asbæk] bringing his energy was just amazing and also surprisingly different than any of the other cast. So, it was a very fun season from many perspectives.
Lee Pace: I think what's a little different about my character is that he's not trying to save the day, [he's just trying to party]. And I think it's also—the story is not about like a big battle, it's about the disintegration of society. So, I think it really says something that the emperor is checked out.
Jared Harris on Hari Seldon's Journey in Foundation Season 3
Hari Seldon Is 'Undergoing an Existential Crisis...'
- The Direct: "Going into Season 3, there's been a 152-year time jump. Can you tease how Hari Selden has changed since audiences last spent time with him?"
Jared Harris: Well, the Harry Selden that's on Ignis, they are trying to create a second Foundation. They are over 100 years late in getting it started, so, they have a lot of catching up to do. [The] Hari Seldom that's in the vault. Well, he's been sleeping the whole time... So he's just waking up to handle and greet the third crisis. So he's on a little bit more of a cushier time.
- The Direct: "What is something in Season 3 that you were able to explore with Hari that you haven't been able to before in the show?"
Jared Harris: I mean, I think the biggest switch is the Hari Seldon in the vault and the realization from what he had from Season 2 is that he's undergoing an existential crisis. Essentially, he's realized that he's no longer in charge of his own story. He's not even in charge of his own mind. Someone's gone in there and edited it, and that is causing him a profound crisis of confidence, if you like. That's probably the biggest switch.
For those Sherlock Holmes fans wondering if Jared Harris might appear in the upcoming third installment, the star has not heard a single thing about it.
Lou Llobell Reveals That Gaal Dornick Has More Action on Season 3
Gaal Is More "Action-Centric" Than Ever Before.
- The Direct: "There's been a 152-year time jump coming into this season. Can you tease the audience about how Gaal has changed since we last saw her?"
Lou Llobell: She's taken responsibility and become a leader, I think. And it's amazing to see. She's kind of taken her whole experience and everything that's happened to her, all the losses, all the trauma, and is teaching a big group of people how to do these amazing things, and creating an army creating, you know, this second foundation that are infiltrating every corner of the galaxy. She's got spies everywhere. It's great, and she's really just stepping into her own.
- The Direct: "With Season 3, what is something you felt like you were able to explore with your character that you have never done before and that will be fresh and new for everyone watching?"
Llobell: She becomes pretty action-centric, which is cool. That's not a very Gaal thing. She's very intellectual and very about the math... She's a little bit more physical in action forward. And it's really cool to see her and kind of work Salvor, kind of the gap that she left. She kind of fills those shoes a little bit this season, and that's pretty cool.
- The Direct: "Obviously, Gaal has changed a lot, but so has the world that we're going to arrive in. How does that present as an entirely different existence for audiences to engage with in this season?"
Llobell: I think what's special about 'Foundation' is that every season is different in that sense, like we always jump however many years, so you get to see a different iteration of where we're at with these characters, and the advancement of technology and the changes and the evolution of what the world looks like. It's cool. I like the idea that everyone's kind of on the same timeline, and these characters are living in the present moment, and there's no more time jumps, really. So, yeah, it's cool. You get to see a bunch of new planets as well, which is really exciting.
The full video interviews can be viewed below:
Check out more of The Direct's interviews, including a conversation with the cast of Apple TV+'s new series Smoke.
