The Direct's Russ Milheim sat down with Captain America: Brave New World star Carl Lumbly in an interview where he commented on if Isaiah Bradley would ever get a supersuit.
The story of the latest MCU movie followed Anthony Mackie's Sam Wilson, aka Captain America, as he is forced to untangled a conspiracy run by the villainous Leader—one that led to Harrison Ford's President Thunderbolt Ross turning into fiery Red Hulk.
In the film, Lumbly plays Isaiah Bradly, the original super soldier who was experimented on in the 1950s and swept under the rug by the government. The character was first introduced into the MCU in the Disney+ series The Falcon and the Winter Soldier.
Carl Lumbly on Possibly Getting a Supersuit One Day
"I'm Not Sure How Much He Would Want to Have a Super Suit On..."
- The Direct: "I have to admit that I feel like, this movie felt like the perfect chance for Isaiah Bradley to finally, kind of put on a super suit. Have you had discussions with Marvel Studios about what a suit for him in the modern day would look like?"
Carl Lumbly: I have a sense of Isaiah Bradley right now as being in flux, and I, especially after what happened recently, I'm not sure how much he would want to have a super suit on, as much as he admires what Sam Wilson is doing.
And you know, as good as those Super Suits can look, I mean, Anthony and Danny look pretty sharp. But I think right now, yeah, Isaiah wants to watch some ball games, probably not go to the stadium, but, you know, maybe get a bigger screen TV.
- The Direct: "He's locked away in prison for a lot of this movie. But I found myself wishing that they could get him out there so you could go help fight Red Hulk and whatnot. How do you feel like Bradley would, if he did go, Okay, I'm gonna help, I'm gonna go out there, how would he fare against Red Hulk? And was there ever a world that we might have seen a version of that fight, but then things just got reshuffled, and then we got the final product?"
Carl Lumbly: That world you just discussed, no, that was never talked about. How would he fare? If you're talking about Isaiah right now, I think he would tend to go more in the direction of being away from it.
I'm not certain how much he wants to let that free. I think he's worked very hard over a number of years, first to fight just the simple rage, then to fight this serum, which he never knows how or when it's going to pop up. I mean, you know, and certainly in the comics it led one way in the way we presented it, both in 'The Falcon and the Winter Soldier' and in the film.
He's not mentally debilitated in a way we would know it. But I still wonder what else goes on. I think the idea of the brainwashing was not a shock. It was a resignation, the fact that there is a degree to which this man cannot trust that he has complete agency all the time in his life.
What Was Isaiah Bradley Doing During Thanos' Snap?
"I Think Isaiah Was Cloistered Away, Almost Monastically."
- The Direct: "Isaiah is a homebody. He's kind of locked himself up and doesn't experience the outside world too much. But there was this big event that happened in the MCU with Thanos' snap. Half of the world vanishes. In your head, what was Isaiah doing when that happened?"
Carl Lumbly: Well, I think Isaiah was cloistered away, almost monastically. He had his little plot of land out in the back. He had plants everywhere.
He had his memories locked in a box, which every once in a while, he would open up and he would share he has his Faith, both literally and figuratively, and I think he made that place sort of a shrine to her, because it's Isaiah has gone beyond having any kind of particular religious attachment, I believe, yeah.
I think there's a greater equanimity about the way he sees the potential for everyone to do bad in the world, but also with the potential for everyone to do good. And Sam has shown him something. He's still processing it, and even in light of what just happened to him.
He's not happy about it, but Sam has shown him something. Sam is flying the course, and there's tremendous pride in that, even if it's a little bit grudging.
- The Direct: "Do you think Isaiah's initial reaction to learning about the snap, what would that look like? Would he not believe it, or would he just be like, this is the world we live in? Like, that's not surprising to him."
Carl Lumbly: I think it wouldn't be surprising, because it's not the world he was living in. My imagination says that outside of his occasional run to the Ace Hardware store, the Lowes garden store, you know, he's not taking Pilates. He's not out in the world.
In fact, he and his grandson are living two separate lives. His grandson is out in the world. And when you open that door in 'The Falcon and the Winter Soldier, and you've stepped out into that community, you realize that there was a vibrancy that was not inside that house.
It was outside in the back with the plants, but inside that house, there was something really quiet. It's almost like a protective shell, that cone of silence that used people could drop down in that TV show. That's where Isaiah was, and he was in a cone of silence himself with his grandson.
- The Direct: "Where is your grandson? We haven't seen him for a second."
Carl Lumbly: Yeah, that boy goes off... Yeah, I must. I must have left him with one of his as many relatives, a bundle of cousins that he loves to spend time [with].
Carl Lumbly's Experience on Brave New World, And What Might Be Next
The Falcon and Winter Soldier Vs. Brave New World
- The Direct: "You first debuted as Isaiah Bradley on the Disney+ series, The Falcon and the Winter Soldier. Coming on to this blockbuster film, though, how different was that experience on a day-to-day level, compared to being on a show?"
Carl Lumbly: To tell you the truth, for me, there wasn't that much difference. It was kind of more so doing 'The Falcon and the Winter Soldier' established a really fun foundation for me, and getting the opportunity then to carry it on into the film. It was quite joyful.
And it was also, you know, continuing to put the puzzle together, because there's so much information that I was able to get through, Truth, the series of comics. But then there was also the film script and the places in which that either deviated or expanded upon ideas in comic, those were challenging, and they were on the spot and in the moment.
So, I felt like it gave me an opportunity to grow the character. The soil has been rich from the beginning with that truth series...
- The Direct: "When you signed on to play Isaiah Bradley in The Falcon and the Winter Soldier, was it known at the time that you would be returning for a movie shortly afterward?"
Carl Lumbly: No, there were no knowns known at the time. I was delightfully surprised when it came back up. And you know, it's interesting because at the time it came up, obviously is very different time, from the time we started shooting to the time it recently was released, and a lot has happened.
And in some ways, people might think, oh, it was reworked at the end to include some of these elements that, I guess, more or less controversial. If a black Captain America isn't controversial enough, but they weren't.
This was written and conceived and put together well before some of the recent madness, so it makes it feel prescient...
- The Direct: "Now that you have returned for a movie, are you contracted for more potential appearances in the future, if they so desire you to come back? Or is it still just the waiting game as it were, the first time around?"
Carl Lumbly: Well, I think it's exactly as it was. This is just the second time around.
- The Direct: "In a world where Isaiah [gets] to come back for a big team up, like an 'Avengers' film, what would that look like? Like? How would he fit into a dynamic like that?
Carl Lumbly: I really couldn't say. I mean, the, I suppose, on some sort of consultancy basis... Does anyone need donuts?
- The Direct: "Hypothetically, what do you personally want to explore next with Isaiah Bradley? What's the next step that you want to help flesh out with your character?"
Carl Lumbly: Well, I do love the idea of being somebody's grandfather. I think that, especially for Isaiah, what that represents is a chance, an opportunity. And I think that's why they are they are brought together.
And there may be a way in which he can help that fulfills his desire to help all along, no matter what happened to her, and it does justice to the love that created his daughter and then his grandson.
Carl Lumbly on Building Camaraderie With the Cast
"... Everyone Comes In With a Sense of Their Own Character
- The Direct: "There's a lot of fun and camaraderie between you, Sam, and Joaquin. What was it like building that? Did you guys do stuff off set just to help build that up? Or was it all just really, real, natural happen in a snap of a finger?"
Carl Lumbly: Not quite snap of a finger, but it happened naturally because, you know, we're working, and so everybody comes in with a sense of their own character.
But then, of course, what you're looking for is points of entry into the other characters, and certainly, that you know your own personality goes with it. So, as an example, I am a little more low-key than the other two gentlemen are.
Anthony is free, and there's something quite infectious about he's the type of person who, you know, Anthony, can say things to people and they kind of chuckle, or they see or feel something that if you and I said they would take offense.
He's got a very kind of playful, lethally truthful affect, and so I really enjoy working with him. And then, I think Danny is just ingenious. He has natural warmth and charm. And, you know, that's kind of ideal.
- The Direct: "I would definitely say that Isaiah really is the heart of this film. How do you feel about that statement? And then also, how did it feel to kind of have that responsibility on your shoulders?"
Carl Lumbly: Well, to answer the second part, first, I actually didn't have that responsibility on my shoulders.
I think if we go back to 'The Falcon and the Winter Soldier' again, when that first idea was broached about Sam Wilson becoming, or being considered Captain America, Isaiah Bradley is burning it in a very deep place, feeling that's an unreality, and in his subtle attempts to bring Sam to some sort of knowledge about this, he says, no self respecting black man would want to be Captain America.
And I think that's a mask for the hurt that he's carried for what, now, 120, 122 years, however old he is. And so that's—it's the same juice. It's the same juice, and it's just continuing to flow forward. So when I hear the heart of the film, I think Sam Wilson is the beating heart of the film.
And I think there's a sympathetic beat that comes from Isaiah operating almost in the opposite direction, someone who's been shut out of the world and desperately wants to stay that way, and someone else.
Sam Wilson is Captain America, who takes the challenge on. And to him, it's just continuing the work he's done as a social worker. So that's, yeah, that's my reaction. It's great, I guess I'm older, so that's my perspective.
Carl Lumbly on the Divisive Reaction to Captain America 4
Lumbly Isn't Sure What Scared Some People Away.
- The Direct: "I wanted to ask about the reaction to this movie from some critics and some fans was a little divisive. Did that surprise you at all with how some people took the movie in and engaged with it?"
Carl Lumbly: Not really, from what little research I had done. The same thing happened when 'Truth' came out when they heard about this multi-series comic featuring a character that seemed to be climbing the mantle of Captain America in some nefarious way.
There was backlash before it came out, and then after it came out. I guess among some in the quarter, there was an understanding that, okay, this is, this is actually not trying to tear apart the legacy. It is telling another story. But I know Robert Morales said he was very shocked by that. I know, so no, I wasn't shocked by it.
I think you can't be shocked by fear. And clearly there was something those people who were most shocked, I think, were most afraid of something. I don't particularly know what it is, but if it's some sense that things are changing, the things are always changing.
- The Direct: "What would you say was the most surprising reaction you saw from fans?"
Carl Lumbly: I guess that it pierced through to a number of people that it was a political thriller. I was intrigued by that because there was a tremendous amount going on, but as you did boil it down, it was a political thriller.
I mean, there was a little tiny bit of mentoring candidate in the brainwashing, and there was, Oh, what was that wonderful 'Day of the Condor,' that feeling of things counting down and about to happen, and I found the conversation at the end between Captain America and Red Hulk, I mean, it just seemed just like reasonable.
Okay, you're hot right now. Let's play for you. Let's just talk and think about it. And yes, you can crush me if you want to, but let's talk. That's some social work right there.
The full video interview can be seen here:
Captain America: Brave New World is now available to purchase on digital platforms.
